ÇÙÀü¹®°¡ "ºÏÇÙ, Á¦Àç ÇØÁ¦½Ã ÆÄÅ°½ºÅº ¹Ý¿­ ¿Ã¶ó¡¦Á¦Àç´Â 'º®' ¾Æ´Ñ '±×¹°'"

µ¥À̺ñµå ¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® £¢ºÏÇÑÀÌ Á¦Àç ¼Ó¿¡¼­µµ ÇÙÀ» Æ÷±âÇÏÁö ¾Ê´Âµ¥, ¾î°¼­ Á¦À縦 ¾ø¾Ö¸é ÇÙÀ» Æ÷±âÇÒ °ÍÀ̶ó°í ¹Ï´ÂÁö ¹¯°í ½Í´Ù.£¢
Çѱ¹ Á¤ºÎ°¡ ´ëºÏÁ¦ÀçÀÇ È¿¿ë¿¡ °Åµì Àǹ®À» Á¦±âÇÏ´Â µ¥ ´ëÇØ Á¦Àç°¡ ºÏÇÑ ÇÙ ÇÁ·Î±×·¥¿¡ ½É°¢ÇÑ Å¸°ÝÀ» ÀÔÇû´Ù´Â ¹Ý·ÐÀÌ Á¦±âµÆ½À´Ï´Ù. ¹Ì±¹ÀÇ ÇÙ¹«±â Àü¹®°¡ÀÎ µ¥À̺ñµå ¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® °úÇб¹Á¦¾Èº¸¿¬±¸¼Ò(ISIS) ¼ÒÀåÀº VOA¿ÍÀÇ ÀüÈ­ ÀÎÅͺ信¼­ Á¦Àç´Â ÆÄÅ°½ºÅº°ú °°Àº ÇÙº¸À¯±¹ÀÌ µÇ·Á´Â ºÏÇÑÀÇ ½Ãµµ¸¦ ÀúÁöÇß´Ù°í ÁöÀûÇß½À´Ï´Ù. »çÀ̹ö °ø°ÝÀ» Æ÷ÇÔÇÑ °ø¼¼Àû ´ëºÏ Á¦Àç·Î ºÏÇÑÀ» Çù»ó Å×À̺í·Î ²ø¾î³»¾ß ÇÑ´Ù°íµµ ¹àÇû½À´Ï´Ù. À̶óÅ© ´ë·®»ì»ó¹«±â »çÂû°ú 2012³â ¹Ì-ºÏ °£ 2.29 ÇÕÀÇ¿¡ Âü¿©Çß´ø ¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀåÀ» ¹é¼º¿ø ±âÀÚ°¡ ÀÎÅͺäÇß½À´Ï´Ù.

±âÀÚ) ÇÙ¹«±â Àü¹®°¡·Î¼­ ´ëºÏÁ¦Àç°¡ ºÏÇÑ ÇÙ °³¹ß¿¡ ¾î¶² ¿µÇâÀ» ¹ÌÃÆ´Ù°í º¸½Ê´Ï±î?

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀå) Á¦Àç´Â ºÏÇÑÀÇ ÇÙ¹«±â °ü·Ã ³ë·Â¿¡ Ÿ°ÝÀ» ÀÔÇô¿Ô½À´Ï´Ù. ºÏÇÑÀÇ ÀÚ±ÝÀ» ¿ÁÁÈ ÇØ¿Ü¿¡¼­ ÇÙ½É Àåºñ¿Í Àç·á¸¦ È®º¸Çϱ⠾î·Æ°Ô ¸¸µé±â ¶§¹®ÀÔ´Ï´Ù.
¡°I think the sanctions have hurt North Korea's nuclear weapons efforts in a couple of ways. One is reducing the amount of money that they have and making it harder for them to get vital equipment and materials overseas.¡±

±âÀÚ) ÀÏ°¢¿¡¼± ¡®Á¦Àç ¹«¿ë·Ð¡¯ÀÌ Á¦±âµË´Ï´Ù. ƯÈ÷ ÀÌÀοµ Çѱ¹ ÅëÀϺΠÀå°üÀº ´ëºÏ Á¦Àç°¡ ºñÇÙÈ­¿¡ ±â¿©Çß´ÂÁö ¿©ºÎ¸¦ °ËÅäÇÒ ÇÊ¿ä°¡ ÀÖ´Ù°í ¸»Çß°í¿ä.

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀå) Á¦Àç´Â º®ÀÌ ¾Æ´Ï¶ó ±×¹°°ú °°½À´Ï´Ù. ºÏÇÑÀÌ ±×¹°¿¡ ±¸¸ÛÀ» ³»°í ±× »çÀÌ·Î ¹º°¡ Èê·¯ µé¾î°¥ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ¸¸Å­, Á¦Àç°¡ ö°©Àº ¾Æ´Õ´Ï´Ù. ÇÏÁö¸¸ Á¦Àç°¡ ¾Æ¿¹ ¾ø´Â »óȲ°ú ºñ±³ÇÒ ¶§ Á¦Àç´Â ºÏÇÑÀÇ ³ë·ÂÀ» ºÐ¸íÈ÷ ÀúÇØÇØ ¿Ô½À´Ï´Ù.
¡°Now these things are like a net. They're not a wall. So North Korea can manage to cut holes in the net. Some things can slip through the net. So it's not ironclad but it has hurt their effort, compared to if the sanctions have not had not been in place.¡±

±âÀÚ) Á¦ÀçÀÇ ºñÈ¿À²¼ºÀ» µûÁö±â Àü¿¡ Á¦Àç°¡ ¾ø´Â »óȲ°ú ºñ±³ÇØ¾ß ÇÑ´Ù´Â ¸»¾¸À̱º¿ä.

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀå) Á¦Àç°¡ ¾ø¾ú´Ù¸é ºÏÇÑÀº ÇÙ¹«±â¸¦ ÈξÀ ½±°Ô ¸¸µé¾úÀ» °ÍÀÌ°í, Áö±Ýº¸´Ùµµ ÈξÀ ¸¹ÀÌ »ý»êÇßÀ» °ÍÀÔ´Ï´Ù. ¶ÇÇÑ ºÏÇÑÀÌ ÀÚÀ¯·Ó°Ô ÇÊ¿äÇÑ ¹°°ÇÀ» »çµéÀÌ°í Àü¹®°¡ Áö¿øÀ» ¹Þ¾ÒÀ» °ÍÀ̱⠶§¹®¿¡ ¹Ì»çÀÏ ÇÁ·Î±×·¥ ¿î¿ëµµ ÈξÀ ½¬¿üÀ» °Ì´Ï´Ù.
¡°If there hadn't been sanctions, they would have had a much easier time building nuclear weapons and been able to build a lot more, and the missile program would have been a lot easier if they could have gone out and shop for things, gotten expert assistance easier.¡±

±âÀÚ) ´À½¼ÇÑ Á¦Àç ÀÌÇàÀÌ ¹®Á¦°¡ µÇ°í ÀÖÁö¸¸, ±×·¡µµ Á¦Àç´Â ÀÛµ¿ÇÏ´Â °ÍÀ¸·Î º¸½Ã´Â °ÅÁÒ?

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀå) Á¦Àç°¡ ºÏ ÇÙ ÇÁ·Î±×·¥À» ¿ÏÀüÈ÷ ³¡³»°Å³ª ÁߴܽÃų ¼ö´Â ¾ø°í Áß±¹°ú ±¹°æÀ» ¸Â´í ºÏÇÑ°ú °°Àº ³ª¶ó¿¡´Â 100% È¿·ÂÀ» ¹ßÈÖÇÒ ¼ø ¾øÁö¸¸, Á¦Àç°¡ ¾ø´Ù¸é »óȲÀº ÈξÀ ¾ÇÈ­µÉ °ÍÀ̶ó´Â À̾߱âÀÔ´Ï´Ù.
¡°While sanctions aren¡¯t by no means can end or stop a program completely ever, sometimes it's happened, but in general, with a country like North Korea bordered on China, the sanctions will never be 100% effective by any means it'll be a lot worse if there are no sanctions.¡±

±âÀÚ) Á¦À縦 ¿ÏÈ­ÇØ ºÏÇÑÀ» ´ëÈ­ Å×À̺í·Î À̲ø°í ´Ü°èÀû ºñÇÙÈ­ Çù»óÀ» ÇØ¾ß ÇÑ´Ù´Â °Ô Á¦Àç ȸÀÇ·ÐÀÚµéÀÇ ³í¸®Àä.

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀå) ºÏÇÑÀÌ Á¦Àç ¼Ó¿¡¼­µµ ÇÙÀ» Æ÷±âÇÏÁö ¾Ê°í Àִµ¥, ¾î°¼­ Á¦À縦 ¾ø¾Ö¸é ÇÙÀ» Æ÷±âÇÒ °ÍÀ̶ó°í ¹Ï´ÂÁö ¹¯°í ½Í½À´Ï´Ù. Á¦À縦 ÇØÁ¦ÇØ ÁÖ¸é ºÏÇÑÀº Å©°Ô ±â»µÇÒ °Ì´Ï´Ù. ±×¸®°í »ó´ë¸¦ ¾àÇÏ°í ºñÈ¿À²ÀûÀ̶ó°í Æò°¡Çϸ鼭 ½Â¸®Çß´Ù°í ¿©±æ °Ì´Ï´Ù.

¡°If North Korea is not willing to give up with sanctions, why would anyone just think it's willing to give up if you just drop them? I mean they would probably rejoice. But they would probably think you were kind of weak and ineffective, and that they¡¯d won.¡±

±âÀÚ) ºñ±³ÇÒ ¼ö ÀÖ´Â ´ë»óÀÌ ÀÖ³ª¿ä?

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀå) Çö½ÇÀûÀ¸·Î ÆÄÅ°½ºÅºÀ» º¸¸é ¾Ë ¼ö ÀÖ½À´Ï´Ù. »ç¶÷µéÀº ÆйèÁÖÀÇÀûÀΠŵµ·Î Á¦À縦 ÇØÁ¦ÇØ Áá°í, ±× °á°ú ÆÄÅ°½ºÅºÀÇ ÇÙ ÇÁ·Î±×·¥Àº È®°íÈ÷ ÀÚ¸®ÀâÀº ¸Å¿ì À§ÇèÇÑ »óÅ·Π³²¾Æ ÀÖ½À´Ï´Ù. µû¶ó¼­ ¹Ì±¹Àº ºÏÇÙ ¹®Á¦¿¡ °üÇÑ ÇÑ ÆÄÅ°½ºÅºÀÇ °æ¿ì¿Í ¹Ý´ëÀÇ ±æÀ» °¡¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù. ¿ÀÈ÷·Á ´ëºÏÁ¦À縦 ¼â½ÅÇÏ°í ÆØÆØÈ÷ Á¶¿©¾ß ÇÑ´Ù´Â À̾߱âÀÔ´Ï´Ù.

¡°The reality is you get a Pakistan. People [were] kind of defeatist and lifted sanctions and now we have Pakistan's nuclear program entrenched on constraint and very dangerous. So I think it's the opposite way of where the United States should go. If anything, they should work to improve the sanctions on North Korea and tighten them.¡±

±âÀÚ) Á¦Àç°¡ ÇØÁ¦µÇ¸é ºÏÇÑÀÌ ¹Ù·Î ÆÄÅ°½ºÅº ¼öÁØÀÇ ÇÙº¸À¯±¹ÀÌ µÉ °ÍÀ¸·Î º¸½Ã³ª¿ä?

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀå) ºÏÇÑÀεéÀº ¸¸³¯ ¶§¸¶´Ù ÆÄÅ°½ºÅºÀÇ ¿¹¸¦ µé¾ú½À´Ï´Ù. ÆÄÅ°½ºÅº°ú °°Àº ¹æ½ÄÀ¸·Î ÇÙº¸À¯±¹ÀÌ µÇ´Â °Ô ºÏÇÑÀÇ ¸ñÇ¥ÀÔ´Ï´Ù. ºÏÇÑÀº ¿ì¸®¸¦ ÁöÄ¡°Ô ÇØ Á¦À縦 ±×¸¸µÎ°Ô ¸¸µé·Á ÇÏÁö¸¸ ÇÙ¹«±â¸¦ Æ÷±âÇÒ °èȹÀº ¾ø½À´Ï´Ù.

¡°I've been in meetings with North Koreans, where they brought up the example of Pakistan. That's sort of their goal, [which] is to wear us out so we'll drop our sanctions. But they're not planning to give up their nuclear weapons.¡±

±âÀÚ) ºÏÇÑÀÇ ÇÙ Ä¿³Ø¼Ç°ú ´ëºÏÁ¦Àç ¹æ¾È¿¡ ´ëÇØ ¹Ì ÇÏ¿ø ¿Ü±³À§¿øȸ¿Í ±ÝÀ¶À§¿øȸ û¹®È¸¿¡¼­ ¿©·¯ Â÷·Ê Áõ¾ðÇϼ̽À´Ï´Ù. ¾î¶² Á¦¾ÈÀ» ÇϽðڽÀ´Ï±î?

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® ¼ÒÀå) Áß±¹ ÀºÇà¿¡ ´ëÇÑ ¾Ð¹ÚÀ» °­È­ÇØ¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù. ºÏÇÑ°ú °Å·¡ÇØ ¿Â Áß±¹ÀÇ ´Ù±¹Àû ±â¾÷¿¡µµ ´õ ¸¹Àº ¾Ð¹ÚÀ» °¡ÇØ ±×µé¿¡°Ô ¼±ÅÃÀ» °­¿äÇØ¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù. ±×·± ±â¾÷µéÀº ¹Ì±¹°ú À¯·´¿¡ ÀÚȸ»ç¸¦ µÎ°í ÀÖ½À´Ï´Ù. ¶ÇÇÑ Çö±Ý Å»Ã븦 À§ÇÑ ºÏÇÑÀÇ »çÀ̹ö °ø°Ý¿¡µµ ÃÊÁ¡À» ¸ÂÃç¾ß ÇÕ´Ï´Ù. ±×¸®°í ºÏÇÑ°ú Áß±¹¿¡ ÀÖ´Â ±×µéÀÇ ´ë¸®ÀεéÀ» °Ü³ÉÇÑ ¸·°­ÇÑ »çÀ̹ö °ø°ÝÀ» °¡ÇØ¾ß ÇÑ´Ù°í Á¦¾ÈÇÏ°Ú½À´Ï´Ù.

¡°I would probably put more pressure on Chinese banks. Many will also put pressure on Chinese multinational companies that we know North Korea has done business with, and give them a choice. Many of them have subsidiaries in the United States or in Europe. I would also focus much more in the immediate term on North Korea's cyber attacks to get money. And really, do some serious cyber attacks against North Korea, and their agents in China.

±âÀÚ) ¹æ¾î¸¦ ³Ñ´Â °ø¼¼Àû ´ëÀÀÀÌ ´õ È¿À²ÀûÀ̶ó°í ÆÇ´ÜÇϽô±º¿ä.

¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ®) ºÏÇÑÀÌ Á¾Á¾ ´Ù¸¥ ³ª¶ó·Î ³Ñ¾î°¡ »çÀ̹ö È°µ¿ µîÀ» ¹úÀ̱⠶§¹®ÀÔ´Ï´Ù. µû¶ó¼­ ±×·± È°µ¿À» ÀúÁöÇÏ°í ºÏÇÑÀÇ Çö±Ý Å»Ãë ³ë·ÂÀ» ÈѼÕÇϱâ À§Çؼ± ºÏÇÑ¿¡ ¸Å¿ì ½É°¢ÇÑ »çÀ̹ö °ø°ÝÀ» °¡ÇØ¾ß ÇÑ´Ù°í Á¦¾ÈÇÕ´Ï´Ù. ±×·¯°í ³ª¼­ ºÏÇÑ¿¡ ÀÌ·± °ø°ÝÀ» ´õ ´çÇÏ°í ½ÍÁö ¾ÊÀ¸¸é ¸¶ÁÖ ¾É¾Æ ºñÇÙÈ­ ¹æ¾ÈÀ» Çù»óÇÏÀÚ°í Á¦ÀÇÇÏ°Ú½À´Ï´Ù.

¡°Because often they'll go into another country to launch the effort but I would do very serious cyber attacks against the North Koreans to try to deter them and undermine their efforts to steal money. And then I would hold out an olive branch that this can all end, if we can sit down and start to negotiate a path forward toward denuclearization.¡±

µ¥À̺ñµå ¿Ãºê¶óÀÌÆ® °úÇб¹Á¦¾Èº¸¿¬±¸¼Ò(ISIS) ¼ÒÀåÀ¸·ÎºÎÅÍ ´ëºÏÁ¦Àç°¡ ºÏÇÑ ÇÙ °³¹ß¿¡ ¹ÌÄ£ ¿µÇâ°ú Á¦Àç ¼â½Å Á¦¾ÈÀ» µé¾îºÃ½À´Ï´Ù. ÀÎÅͺ信 ¹é¼º¿ø ±âÀÚ¿´½À´Ï´Ù.

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